5 Man Competitive Setup

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5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Kine² on 2015-11-19, 01:35

Here are the proposed roles for our competitive roster:

1. Tank
2. Medic
3. Sparks / Sniper
4. Engineer
5. Killer

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1+2 Tank and Medic

This 2 man combo is the core of all our team moves. We need to develop this core each time playing competitive. Ideal tank player is someone who knows how to survive and if he has to die, he can pick where and when to go down in such a way that his medic can revive him easily. Our tank can also pace himself correctly to allow his medic to heal him without difficulty minimizing number of revives.

Ideal medic is equally good at survival able to work in the frontlines keeping our tank alive. He knows when to shoot and when to float back. Constantly reading the game anticipating when his tank will get into trouble and ready himself to rescue.

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Sparks / Sniper

In tough games where our Medic keeps dying or getting focused down, we should run a Sparks as 2nd medic. His job is to keep both tank and medic alive, damaging enemies when they are both fine. If there isn't a need for a second medic, this player switches to 2nd engineer or sniper.

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Engineer.

This is our clutch player. The ninja. The dude who claims the glory when we win games.

Capping objectives, planting that hard to get to C4, defusing that crucial explosive, sneaking in that data core. This is him. It'd be nice if he can kill but moving the game forward is his main task. Or if on defense, denying the enemy from advancing on objectives.

He is primarily our main attacker but Jesus on our defense. Win or Lose, he is the first person Creed will look at.

--

Killer

This player is Azh. If he's not on, a suitable fill in should be found.

He kills. He does it independently. He knows when to be where and says odear alot. And rage even if we win. If you're not top on KDR you suck and shouldn't be playing this spot. He has to play the EV killer and or the ammo guy on maps that needs it.
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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Kine² on 2015-11-19, 01:48

Tank + Medic Mercs

Medic player must have the H72 Aura card and the CR73 Sawbonez card. These cards what makes the Medic viable in competitive. Anything else you might as well play another Merc and not run a medic.

Tank should either be Fragger or Rhino simply for the HP
But if you need to blow stuff up then it's Skyhammer or Nader depending on what needs blowing up. Skyhammer for EV, Nader if generators.

Tanks should be our best Skyhammer player ideally since staying alive for so long means you need to supply yourself ammo. Expect to use him often.

R93 Nitro Rhino
M93 Boom nade Fragger
M63 Savant for Skyhammer
CR81 Crotzni Nader
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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Ra¢X3r on 2015-11-19, 13:46

I really enjoy this guide and its crucial for our comp games.
My question is: Do you think that 1 engi is enough when we are supposed to attack?
If we play with a setup like this:
Sawbonez,Fragger,Sparks,Proxy,Skyhammer.
I think it would be very hard for us to plant a C4 or whatever. I know you said the sparks may switch to 2nd engi or stuff but I think attacking with 1 engineer is damn hard.

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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Kine² on 2015-11-19, 17:20

Then I would have to ask why is it difficult ?
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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by RickyNeuman on 2015-11-19, 17:31

I'm not a big fan of any sniper in the team. They are useless most of the time in my opinion. Only time I like them if we are defending and you can go for longrange kills. Maybe at chapel or trainyard.

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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Kine² on 2015-11-19, 17:58

https://www.youtube.com/user/GuilteTV
check out his clan battle videos.


But specifically about Creed:

Sparks is a big deal. Ability to remote heal is huge. In the hands of a non sniper however you lose out on team DPS since one man is essentially isnt shooting. But if you give a sniper to play Sparks you have on tap 150 dmg per headshot on her Revivr gun. That's insta killing most enemies.

Not all Sparks players are sniper though. And not all snipers can play Sparks. #3 spot really depends on what you have on your roster. I can play both in a competitive environment so this should be the average expectation from other Sparks / Sniper.
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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Ra¢X3r on 2015-11-19, 18:06

Kine² wrote:Then I would have to ask why is it difficult ?
If you try to plant the c4 or repair the EV the enemies will always focus on the engineer,especially better enemies we will face in comp mode.
You will probably now state that we can protect the engi but that´s not always possible. If he dies we have to wait for him to come back to his spot because its useless to repair stuff as a non-engi in comp games.
If we have a second engi like Fletcher he can help out if the proxy/bushy dies. Additionally Fletcher will always kill a bunch of enemies.
When we have to attack I would play like this:
Sawbonez/Aura,Sparks,Proxy,Fletcher,Rhino/Fragger.
For defending a skyhammer/Nader/Stoker idk can replace 1 engineer.

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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Kine² on 2015-11-19, 18:14

Dirty Cups CBT Series Finals : Grand Final PkD vs Sick6
First 3 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfBdJm3ibOE

Hardest first objective in the game for attackers. Bridge. They went 0 engineers first 3 waves.

IF one engineer is having a hard time, one should ask WTF is the other 4 guys doing.

In a pub setting, it is possible and even routine for me to ninja cap stuff as proxy. In competitive it is different. You need to wipe out the entire enemy team to do objectives hence there is a higher need for ability to kill than ability to repair things faster.

Simple maths. If you have an engineer with his face down on an objective during a firefight, you have 1 gun less. That's a 4 v 5. If you have a Sparks who can't snipe that's 3 v 5. The idea will always be KILL ALL first. Do objectives while enemy is respawning.
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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Kine² on 2015-11-19, 18:15





I thought I'd use a diagram for better explanation.

The Fragger Medic combo are responsible for pushing into areas the team needs to be in or wants to hold. His damage output and tankiness thanks to medic means enemy teams will be forced to deal with him at each turn.

2nd medic's main concern is keeping important people alive at crucial times. This means the first medic without whom, the Fragger will die. And ofcourse the Engineer. When playing 2 medics, the only time you don't have an engineer when you need him is when things have gone absolutely wrong.

Our 5th man is the one who bounces back and forth between attacking and defending for the team. He fills in the holes in our gaps. If we are getting flanked he is the one who spots and deals with it. He is also the one doing most of the flanking scoring cheap easy kills.

The Engineer gets to choose who he works with. The Fragger or The Killer so he rarely goes around alone. Both Killer and Fragger will actively try to create space for the Engineer to move into.


---

Here's a couple of videos of a team using the most common competitive setup in Dirty Bomb. Twin medic, medic fragger combo, tactical engineer and nader/killer.

This is from the Medic's POV babysitting Fragger in their 2man combo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZvbvY76Xz8

Here's their Nader playing solo Killer. He plays behind everyone most times so you can use the video to see how the rest of his team moves around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe2HItx6BOQ

--

All this came about after playing a competitive match yesterday where we lost to a weaker but better team. They made more revives than we did, won and held good positions more often than we did and generally worked better as a unit than we did. Despite being 5 man randoms while Creed was a party of 5.

That game we played more randomly than 5 strangers on solo queue. That cannot be good. Especially for a clan that's been together for several years now.


Last edited by Kine² on 2015-11-19, 19:36; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by тяєєs on 2015-11-19, 19:17

RickyNeuman wrote:I'm not a big fan of any sniper in the team. They are useless most of the time in my opinion. Only time I like them if we are defending and you can go for longrange kills. Maybe at chapel or trainyard.

I find this to be untrue, in many of the games ive played with Aczh I bee top 3 on the team as a vaselli. Camping snipers are a bunch of bitches, but an aggressive sniper can be a good asset.

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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Kine² on 2015-11-19, 19:41

In case anyone is wondering. I didn't make this up on my own.

That suggested setup is the current competitive meta in Dirty Bomb.

We should at the very least learn how to play the default meta everyone else is using and understand it before coming up with our own.
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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by RyuK on 2015-11-19, 21:29

I think we also got to check wich engineer would be the most suitable for the maps/teams we can build.
Boty's the most experienced on Bush and, even not being a huge fan of Bush, he is stronger than Proxy. She's fast af tho (and yes I love to sneak with her, she's awesome), so we could also discuss where and who will do the engineers for each situation.

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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Ra¢X3r on 2015-11-19, 22:11

Dante wrote:I think we also got to check wich engineer would be the most suitable for the maps/teams we can build.
Boty's the most experienced on Bush and, even not being a huge fan of Bush, he is stronger than Proxy. She's fast af tho (and yes I love to sneak with her, she's awesome), so we could also discuss where and who will do the engineers for each situation.
I think we can not really decide that,It´s a very individual choice which engi you prefer.
Well for me fletcher is engi #1 for every situation but a lot of players see that differently.
Like azh once said fletcher has been designed for aggressive attack-playing whilst Bushwhacker is the guy of choice for defense (that makes sense. If you have to push the EV, for instance, where do you want to place your turret? You are running into enemy lines...but if you defend you can let them all run into your companion.)
I suggest everybody plays the engi he likes. I will never play Proxy since I dont like the way you should use her at all but ofc some other ppl recommend her.

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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Kine² on 2015-11-19, 23:22

Most teams pick Bush for his consistently higher DPS, Fletcher has issues fighting at range.

And you 'push' the EV from in-front. You only need 1 guy to move the EV. Everyone else should be securing the next section forward. Normally between enemy spawn and the EV destination. That's where the turret goes.
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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by RyuK on 2015-11-20, 00:41

Playing Proxy is also a good alternative for getting some places quite secure while teammates dont get there, as her speed + mines makes her a starting game denial merc, even if for some secs, she will be able to sneak in between enemies and do the objectives fast.
She's also good to run in between enemies shooting your teammates. It makes her good to make them retreat (like in underground map). It's point of knowing how to deal with her low hp, but never running out of ammo in a 1v1 (2 smgs loadout) makes her a deep good combatent.

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Re: 5 Man Competitive Setup

Post by Kine² on 2015-11-21, 10:13



Kine² wrote:1+2 Tank and Medic

This 2 man combo is the core of all our team moves. We need to develop this core each time playing competitive. Ideal tank player is someone who knows how to survive and if he has to die, he can pick where and when to go down in such a way that his medic can revive him easily. Our tank can also pace himself correctly to allow his medic to heal him without difficulty minimizing number of revives.

Ideal medic is equally good at survival able to work in the frontlines keeping our tank alive. He knows when to shoot and when to float back. Constantly reading the game anticipating when his tank will get into trouble and ready himself to rescue.


Medic work isn't slow or boring.

It takes alot to play it optimally. If you stay back defensively then the team loses 1 man's worth of damage contribution. Attack too vigorously then you might tunnel vision and forget heals + revives. Against good players, successfully reviving downed team-mates can also be a challenge. Players can still get gibbed as they stand up after being revived so the Medic needs to body block or draw fire away from his recovering team-mate for 2 seconds. Charging up your defib BEFORE your tank goes down is also a thing and that requires being able to anticipate him dying before he dies.

You can practice Medic work even in pub games. Pick a guy and keep him immortal the entire match. In this video Azh happened to be on. And this took 3-4 games of me fucking up before we finally synched up. In my defense I haven't played Sawbonez in a while. My main medic has been Sparks this last month.
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