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Post by Kine² 2015-03-05, 01:48

OvHavok wrote:One of the biggest flaws "I cannot stress this concern enough"  I feel that the game has is humans seem worthless 1v1 or 1v2+. You cannot solo a vampire without dying or getting down to 10% health if they are in your face.

... Rolling, the only thing it seems to do sometimes is give you the ability to dodge tyrant charges, other than that, it is pointless. It doesn't negate damage or cause a player to miss you at all.



Gameplay video of session right after I posted my comment earlier

1. First part of video my team got wiped out and I'm last one alive in the Fort 1 v 3. Instead of booking it I decided to stay to damage and delay the vampires so that even if I died my team mates could retake the fort easily after respawning. Things turned out better than expected.

2. Human sprinting speed is a tiny bit faster than Vampire's. But it only works if you run early. Melee hits has 'Stopping Power' which stuns you for a fraction of a second each time it connects. Trying to run away when locked in Melee seldom works. In the prophet segment of the video you can see me check how much lead I had versus my pursuer before I decided to run. If I did not have any I would stand my ground and hope to cause damage before I died. Preferably dying in full view of my team so they can deny him the heals. At med - high level play however, running away rarely works out.

3. Rest of the video is pure 1 v 1 and a 1 v 2 scenario where I began defending at a disadvantage either in HP or initiative. Positive outcomes from these kinds of situations isn't a rarity for me but I rarely ever get into those because I make it a habit to fight under cover fire. Or be the one providing cover. Once in a while however I do get isolated due to team dying or a good play by the Vamps.

Nosgoth gameplay has layers to it. And from a beginner's perspective these layers are so subtle you will not notice them easily. With time and experience however you'll start seeing things differently. I was where you are and I'm fairly new. It won't take much before you start looking at Nosgoth differently.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-05, 15:29

Spoiler:

Legacy of Kain was a 1996 Playstation title Nosgoth is based on. It was a 3D adventure starring one very pissed off vampire named Raziel. Long story short, Raziel was the first vampire to have 'evolved' wings even before his very jealous boss who then decided to rip out Raziel's shiny new wings and throw him into an abyss for all eternity.

Max ranking Nosgoth's Sentinel class unlocks the 2014 reinterpretation of Raziel. This awesome skin has Legacy of Kain fans creaming infront of their monitors since it came out. I'm not an LoK fan nor have I heard of the game until Nosgoth. But I can understand these kid's excitement. Raziel is badass.

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This video is kinda special. It was the final match I needed to earn the last few XP to max rank my Sentinel thus unlocking Raziel. I joined the lobby late going into a match on the losing the team who were ... losing very badly. Once in awhile you get post match drama and this match was one of them. Some punk insulted all of us who were on his team blaming everyone except himself and refused to acknowledge the opponent's skill.

Worse of all - He called The Kine a noob.

As fate would have it, or perhaps matchmaker had a sense of humour, him and I were scrambled into opposite teams for the next match.

The Kine flew his best Sentinel performance yet on the back of very motivated team-mates who had just been called fucking useless. I present to you Flawless Sentinel gameplay:

Skip straight to gameplay if you don't feel like reading all the pre-match drama.

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Post by NoBoty 2015-03-05, 21:02

the pre match drama adds to the vid , so i say watch it too Laughing
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-06, 13:38

I make it a point to rep Creed as best I can. Positive attitude, sportsmanship etc.

For the record I did not single Kiersh out personally. I played a very technical Sentinel game sticking to how the class was meant to function:

Isolating vulnerable players caught out of position, prevent respawning humans from regrouping and to punish solo heroes outside of friendly cover fire.

It just so happens that I kept finding Kiersh alone in those bad positions. Which was EXACTLY what I told him he was doing before the match started.

---



Been awhile since I played Crossbow dude. Haven't lost my Jedi Bola touch though. Nice 2 man combo with the Archer. I had to make a judgement call, save him in a 2v3 and possibly die as well or let him die to regroup with my other team mates coming back 3v3. Tough call considering the Archer kept me alive so many times during that round. Tryhard game between 2 good teams.

Summoner is a ranged Nuker - Initiator vampire class. Her downside is weaker melee attacks and low HP. Kinda ironic then to score both my Quads so far in Nosgoth as Summoner using melee.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-07, 08:54



Shitty matchup. Team gave up before game even started because a New Recruit decided to queue open lobby and ended up on our team. Made the best of it by practicing my 1v1's as Human. Never had so many 1v1 duels in a single match ever since I left New Recruit server.

Nosgoth's game design revolves around the idea of a Ranged Defense vs Melee Offense combat.

Humans with ranged weapons but low mobility must defend against very agile Vampire melee attackers. Meta is for Human team to organize a defense strategy and Vampires try to crack it. Then both teams switch sides in round two, where aggregate kill score at the end determines which team wins.

Clutch is when a Human player is able to go against the meta and win a melee engagement 1v1 against a vamp. It's like being able to win your pistol round versus enemies with assault rifles.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-08, 06:51

Kine² wrote:Nosgoth's game design revolves around the idea of a Ranged Defense vs Melee Offense combat.

Humans with ranged weapons but low mobility must defend against very agile Vampire melee attackers. Meta is for Human team to organize a defense strategy and Vampires try to crack it. Then both teams switch sides in round two, where aggregate kill score at the end determines which team wins.



I can only imagine how random my matches must look like to those who don't play Nosgoth without first hand knowledge of class roles and player meta. This video is kinda nice as it has several scenes where tactical team play is more evident.

This was the first team vs team match out of 8 that we played. I formed a 2 man squad with a random and by sheer chance we were put into a lobby of other 2 man squads. Each team had 2 squads of competent players and we went at it like it was a clan tournament. After each match, teams were auto scrambled and we got to play with new pairs. I won 6 of those 8 matches.

---

Human Round

- Idea is to run an Archer + Bodyguard combo
- Archers are great at wearing down vamps from range but suck at close quarters
- Bodyguard is to protect Archer when vamps engage in melee
- Archer reciprocates by providing defensive area of effect abilities when needed
- Not much was discussed beyond that combo and where we wanted to defend
- This was our first match together after all
- Vampire's strategy was to hit us with constant hit and runs
- If they manage to force someone out of position or injure one badly enough, they gank him
- The other Archer + Bodyguard pair kept getting baited out of position
- Our 2 pairs were frequently isolated from each other and vamps made it very hard to regroup.
- Lost 1st half trailing by 9 points.

Vampire Round

- We spent time discussing what we wanted to run this time
- The other squad ran Initiator + Brawler
- Our squad complemented with 1 extra Brawler and Kine chose to play Tact. Support
- Plan is simple, Coordinated Shock N Awe
- Opponents played a fast hit and run game, picking off weakest target whenever they can
- We chose to do a slow full team wipeouts.
- After realizing everyone on team was responding to my voice calls I took the opportunity to Quarterback
- I synch'd the team as we set up into position, name names and updates on general tactical awareness
- Initiator Nukes
- Brawlers identify weakest link and gank him
- Kine spots for highest threat and singles him out for a 1v1
- Everyone regroups to mop up survivors

Human team caught on eventually forcing me and my buddy to switch classes. They staggered their lines making it harder for me to single any human out and they started running bait + hidden ambush against our brawlers. We responded with double nukes not to initiate but for area control and I played mind controlling cloacker to mess up their ambushers. Kine scored the final 2 most important kills of the match at the end. One to even up the scores. Final one for the winning kill. Half a minute remaining, I called the team to run down the clock. Shameless tactic but a win nonetheless.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-10, 06:05




There are several ways to gauge team member contribution and the most common is via damage inflicted. Especially true when playing Human coz your job is to basically hurt every Vampire you see hoping more of their team dies than yours.

With an average HP of 1,000 scoring 2,000 damage per life is the benchmark people go for. That's doing enough damage to kill 2 Vampires at the cost of 1 of your own. If everyone can manage that, it almost always translate to a round win.

2,000 damage per life.

Here's Kine on a 22,000 damage killstreak claiming 20 takedowns (13 kills + 7 assists) along the way.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-11, 19:50



3 of 3 Quads I've made so far has all been using the Summoner, a support class. Despite being better at other classes, I find myself spawning her when going tryhard. Mainly because I disagree on how others were using her.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-15, 12:20



Been a rough few days ranking up classes and weapons that did not suit my playstyle. Losing streak today reminded me that any game no matter how awesome can be unfun when things go wrong so much so often.

Kine needed a slap in the face to wake him the fk up and start dominating again. And of all the people or things in this world, it was a glitched matchmaker that did it for me. This is why Kine is Creed.

5 v 3 re awoken Das Beast.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-15, 19:23



This is how we say hello in Tyrant.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-16, 08:57



This is one of those classes that do not suit me, a shame since I really love his skill sets. Mind control taking over a Human player character for a few seconds, Area damage over time, Invisibility, Disguise to look like a Human, High damage dagger when striking someone's back, summon Illusions.

Deceiver is one of those things that make Nosgoth special. Unfortunately I suck at it. Rather nice to finally score a significant killstreak using him today. This isn't how the class is normally played however. The support player in me keeps veering away from the standard carry-finisher loadouts to a more team oriented setup.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-17, 20:49



There are roles on a team in Nosgoth.

Since Humans have guns that can shoot you from across the map while Vamps only have melee, simply running up to them seldom works. If at all.

The procedure Vamp players will eventually learn goes as follows:

1. Get into position
2. Initiate
3. Disrupt
4. Assassinate
5. Retreat or Mop Up
6. Rinse and Repeat

Waiting until everyone is ready before going in as a team is crucial. Since Humans have guns that can shoot you as you approach, Vamp team will always need someone to initiate. Forcing Humans to give up their aim AND splitting them up in the process for a few precious seconds is considered perfect initiation.

That is the window of opportunity in which Brawlers need to identify Human players they can safely isolate and get in there with minimal damage. They will naturally take the brunt of DPS as soon as Humans recover their composure. Committing to a fight and staying alive are normally mutually exclusive events for Brawlers. After damaging whichever Humans they can, Brawlers are expected to escape and ready themselves for the next engagement.

During this period of chaos is when the finisher or 'killstealer' goes in. They are the ones the team relies on to claim those kills after all that hard work. Vamps will need to evaluate how the team fight developed. If things go your way, everyone including the Initiator goes back in to gangbang surviving Humans. If things didn't pan out as well as you hoped for, the team returns to their starting positions and wait for dead team mates to respawn and or cooldown timers to refresh.

The killstealer role is my least favourite. It takes a special kind of individual to consistently be able to drop down on an unsuspecting victim, insta-kill him and GTFO before another Human realizes one of theirs just died. That is one role I cannot naturally do well in. Whenever I get put into a lobby filled with newbies however, I use the opportunity to practice. Video is a rare display of Kine managing a killstreak playing as finisher claiming 50% of the team's kills.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-18, 17:44



Spoiler:

Confident enough to post guides on the main forum.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-20, 00:00



Although Vampires have different roles and such, Humans are much simpler to organize. Shame that clueless nubs are clueless and rarely able to setup a decent defense.

At a competitive level, teams come up with map strategies and location specific tactics.

In random play however it is unrealistic to expect the same depth in your defensive plan.

There are 3 levels of defensive effectiveness when playing random.

Best you can achieve is setting up a proper killbox where each Human player picks a corner and maintains line of sight to all 3 other Human team mates. Theoretically, whenever a Vampire decides to attack one of you, he has 3 other guns at the ready to protect him.

Failing that level of common sense, the next best alternative is a 2 man crossfire. Each guy looks at the other and shoots everything that comes in between them.

But if your Human team absolutely fails or if there are too many 'carries' then the least you could do is to fill a bodyguard role. Normally if I notice there is another player able to take over the carry spot, I'll devote my time to keeping him alive. In theory - if every guy acted as the bodyguard to one other player you will in effect have the whole team covering each other.

But y'know. When fail team fails, they fail.

This video is kinda an exception. uNborn is team captain to Nosgoth's top ESL team. He came into the lobby with another team mate of his and they happened to end up on my side. Until today, whenever he shows up - he's always in the opposite team so I took the opportunity this time to play his bodyguard just so I have a video I can use to demonstrate how a 'Bodyguard' gameplay looks like for the newbies.

Quality protection if I may say so myself.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-26, 15:27

Whenever I get actively involved in a game's community, I tend to attract the negatives for some reason. Prolly a Creed trait.

So your argument is it didn't work in a pub game thus it must be bad? nice logic, unborn is skilled at aiming, as for strategy... well that's a different matter. Look at the video's (or streams) of the top eu teams, you will notice nearly every team uses 2 hell strikes + tyrant + senti/deceiver/reaver. that in its self is showing an issue with the balance



Kine you are so all over the place with your posting I don't even know how to respond.

You contradict yourself multiple types throughout this forum as it stands. While you bring up some good points at this point I believe you are just arguing to win and not exactly bringing a full constructive conversation to all of this.



I'll skip the text walls and just link the video here. It was used in a "discussion" where some dude complained how a certain Vampire composition was too difficult to counter. Which I found untrue in my experience as I welcome that particular strat coz I find it easier to handle compared to several other variations.

Then came an ESL player citing ABC123 which is rather redundant in a public server context coz it is highly unlikely that random strangers can pull off stunts ESL teams can at the same degree of effectiveness.

Anyways - played versus uNborn again who was complying with the hard to handle meta game composition. Guess who won though Smile
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-26, 15:32

What I did take away from that however is the fact that no ESL players criticized my actual gameplay but only my opinions. Which is rather good for me on a personal level coz that means I must be improving technically as a player woohoo.
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-29, 15:30



Not proud it was a nub bash but killstreak is killstreak. My first since max ranking the Tyrant. Bunch of mistakes especially melee accuracy, missing my punches too many times but #nubashfreepass
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Post by Kine² 2015-03-31, 03:08



One of the things I find most refreshing about this game is that it has no emphasis on twitch shooting and aim accuracy etc. The role reversal in terms of core skill sets is absolute.

What CW / CS / BG / UT / GR / Quake and all these other shooters consider as core skills, in Nosgoth its a bonus.

On the other hand, 'support' type skill sets in regular shooters are now primary skills for Nosgoth. Ability to read teams, flow of the game, visualize traffic, positioning, awareness etc - these are all core skills.

I think this switch in emphasis of what is important and what is considered utility is what keeps me logging in daily.

But once in awhile, just rarely - my aim gets an opportunity to shine. Hell yea moment that puts a smile on my face everytime I watch the replay.

Creed Kine reflex shot.
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Post by Kine² 2015-04-03, 12:43



what a treat today. versus ESL champions.

Nosgoth ESL Beta Cup ended this week and these guys were the overall champions. Haven't gotten my ass kicked so brutally in a long time.

I deleted the 0-30 and 4-60 matches hahahah

Here's the one and only match our random team actually fought back pretty well. We lost the match but not our pride.

Kine made his mark during human round as crossbow dude. Versus ESL champs baby.

Full match video, Vampire and Human rounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYjo4090p9s
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Post by Kine² 2015-04-04, 10:45



New stuff on display.

New map.
New human class.
New Tyrant skin I just bought.

According to game lore, this new map is home to the Tyrants. Harsh, industrial, spartan. Tyrants are vamp's big frontline brawlers / metal and armour smiths. Aesthetics made to match. Forge, gladiatorial arena, pipes, molten metal and stuff. Looks and plays awesome.

Map designer and dev team in general are better at understanding how high level players compete at Nosgoth and it shows in how they've laid out the new map. Restricted sight lines so humans with guns cant suppress from long range too well. Vertical axis diversity give vamps more options when approaching human teams which is a pain on older maps against expert teams. Small spaces and multiple exits as well as many convenient nooks and crannies help make up for it in favour of humans however so all is fair. Good defensible spots are littered around this huge map so gameplay should be more diverse as there isn't THAT ONE SPOT where it works for humans etc.

New human class isn't all that new. It's been released for sometime already but I rarely use him coz playstyle. He's armed with throwing axes and has a shield handy to block vamps intent on clawing his eyes out. Abilities include healing aura and a variety of things he could use his shield for other than blocking. Like knocking a vampire flat on his back etc. What I don't do well with is his axe. Throwing it really requires aptitude for. You either get it or you don't. Kine doesn't. I've seen people snipe flying vamps with throwing axes tho so I know it isn't the weapon and probably just me. Anyway he's featured in this video and personally I like watching his gameplays only maybe because I suck at it myself. Premium skin sporting a badass mohawk and a giant golden shield.

And to show support for all the good work Devs have done so far with the last couple of patches, I bought a Tyrant skin I didn't really need. But this one's black. Nigga Tyrant. Too awesome not to own.
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Post by Kine² 2015-04-05, 17:53



Prolly gonna get nerfed in next two patches so imma upload my personal favourite combo for the Tyrant as a reminder. The throw followed by charge combo.

Vamps and Humans have 2 ability slots with alternatives for each. This is how you personalize classes to suit your playstyle in Nosgoth. Not one to follow sheep I stayed away from the overused meta of Charge into Ground Slam.

What that combo does is chain stun you by knocking you down using the running charge immediately followed by a second stun from Ground Slam. This will take a human from full health to dead with only 1 punch in the face at the end of the combo without the human able to even fire off his weapon.

Recent patch nerfed that combo by adding a 1.333 second delay at the end of a running charge. Goal was to allow the human to dodge away from the Tyrant and hopefully out of Ground Slam range and avoid being stunned twice in a row.

Nerf does not affect the combo I use because I throw first and only charge in second. The delay will not stop me chaining my stuns. Damage done by both stuns is comparable to the other combo and again, 1 punch to the face at the end of the combo is all it takes to kill a human from full health.

Reason why this isn't as common is that throw damage is dependent on how far you send the poor sod flying. The further you throw him the greater the damage obviously. And then there is the issue of timing your charge to connect immediately after the throw. Most people find it inconvenient ie. #effort #skill

But kine is all about timing and skill no?
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Post by Kine² 2015-04-06, 18:16



Finished my vampire round going 10-0 KD. Never intended on playing for KDR, just one of those things that happens ... team composition and dynamics and stuff.
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